tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798074091942701235.post7996364474688768713..comments2024-03-29T01:35:09.550-04:00Comments on Can Turtles Fly?: Articles for the week ending in October 10th of 2009Sivaram Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06361276466660862882noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798074091942701235.post-70189721019946109802009-10-19T13:18:31.000-04:002009-10-19T13:18:31.000-04:00Good luck with your future endeavours and all the ...Good luck with your future endeavours and all the best to you... I agree with you that, regardless of near term outcomes, having a business education of some sort will help you in the long run.Sivaram Velauthapillainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798074091942701235.post-12838808554396808212009-10-19T13:08:00.000-04:002009-10-19T13:08:00.000-04:00Yes, currently I am working in software but plan o...Yes, currently I am working in software but plan on applying for next years admissions. I am quite cautious on the value/worth of an MBA if its not from a top school or does not have good recruiters. Basically there has been an oversupply of MBA students in the job market and now MBA grads are having to find alternative career paths that arent in Finance or Consulting. I think its would be useful to me since I havent taken a lot of business courses and it would help me break into a particular field. The other concern I have is with the cost of the MBA, people cannot possibly repay all that tuition without having a big six-figure salary(which is now under pressure unless you work at Goldman Sachs). Even with all my bearishness, I am still considering doing it because I think that a business education would be useful in the next 20-30 years, not perhaps the next 5. I am not nessecarily bent on getting a finance job as an analyst but if you think about the things that analyst's do, there are many business jobs that can fit into that category(management consulting, business developent, coporate strategy etc.) I would prefer equity analysis because that is probably more interesting to me, but one has to have a fairly open mind in the worst collapse in the past 70 years. Either way, companies choose to make investments all of the time through buyouts, investments in new technologies..etc. so being part of that process would be really interesting as well. I am looking at things from an extremely macro point of view, and as of now cannot really tell what sector I'd really be interested in. I agree with you that investing others money is a completely different and if returns are not very good in for 1 or 2 years, one would probably face extreme scrutiny. The problem however is that for a lot of ideas to work out, it takes at least 1 or 2 years. Convicing your partners and investors of this is the hard part. This is different than a hedge fund that is trading all day, which is not something I am particularly interested in.sunnynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798074091942701235.post-50654760073164271442009-10-15T13:59:14.000-04:002009-10-15T13:59:14.000-04:00"I like the notion of trading/investing becau...<em>"I like the notion of trading/investing because(it is enjoyable/fun to me to do reserach on potential investments and it is a skill that can be transfered as well). While the idea of client relations is not too bothersome to me, corporate bureaucracy is."</em><br /><br /><br /><br />One thing to keep in mind is that investing for fun is very different from managing other people's money. If you do poorly for a few months or even an year with your portfolio, it's fine. But life will be difficult if you doing it professionally.<br /><br /><br />I agree with you that investing skills are transferable. In fact, as you quoted of Buffett, you will be a better manager if you knew investing, and vice versa. At worst, you may also learn some economics and be aware of the political and social environment.Sivaram Velauthapillainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798074091942701235.post-2952645180552371512009-10-15T13:53:25.000-04:002009-10-15T13:53:25.000-04:00" I have a few friends that are in management...<em>" I have a few friends that are in management consulting that work on business intellegence, pricing, analysis etc. working to provide reccomendations to the management of companies and they seem to enjoy the work. I just recently found out how a lot of corporations kind of make business decisions using IT services and then excel modeling (basically using DCF with hundreds of inputs on anything you can imagine through customized SAP software) to create pricing modles, monitor inventories..etc. "</em><br /><br /><br /><br />I'm somewhat familiar with what you have described. The biggest boom in the technology industry is probably in the so-called business intelligence field. This is what you are referring to and most of the job postings I see are in those fields. There are probably 5x more jobs in, say, designing and deploying SAP enterprise systems than, say, software development (in C++/C#/Java/etc.) I am sort of on the periphery of this area, being more on the analytics side, but it is something that is very prevalent. Unfortunately, I don't have exposure to the enterprise systems or enough design/development so it doesn't help my job prospects :( <br /><br />I think the business intelligence field is attractive from a job point of view because they are pure engineering/business analysis jobs and can't be outsourced easily. One of the problems for workers in developed countries is that you are literally competing with cheaper labour locations. So this area is more secure.Sivaram Velauthapillainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798074091942701235.post-81321995549508067332009-10-15T13:27:17.000-04:002009-10-15T13:27:17.000-04:00Here are my thoughts on what you said. Do note tha...Here are my thoughts on what you said. Do note that I don't have experience in everything that is discussed and everything I say should be construed as opinion or speculation about the future...<br /><br /><em>" As for me, I'm applying for an MBA and from there will decide which route to take. I have decided whatever I do, wether its being a consultant or an analyst, I'd like to have as much exposure to the BRIC(maybe not russia) markets as possible, since I think that they will be more prosperous in the next 20 years. I've only taken a few econ classes and feel that an MBA would help in getting potential oppurtunities whether in the financial sector or working at a company."</em><br /><br /><br />Are you currently in School or working? I think the usefulness of an MBA depends on many things, including how good of a school you can get into, how much it costs, what your future goals are, and so on. Ideally, you should think about what area you would like to focus. You can do this afterwards but it helps if you think about it early. I never did my MBA but did think about it when I was about to graduate from school, and also thought about it recently.<br /><br />You were bearish on the financial industry from a macro point of view, so, if that comes true, do keep in mind that there may be a surplus of MBA-caliber workers in finance. By the time you graduate, the situation would improve but it may still be somewhat tough.<br /><br />I graduated with a computer degree in early 2000's and the computer industry was essentially in a depression. My career was completely fucked and I never really got into any decent company or areas that fit my skills and capabilities. Even to this day, this makes it difficult for me. The computer industry was essentially shedding jobs for the first 3 or 4 years of the decade. I'm not predicting the same thing in business or for MBAs in general, but some areas of finance may be in a depression for a while.<br /><br />I think international exposure, whether BRIC or not, will be a big asset. The world is more globalized and even if you dont' get a great job right away, your international exposure will help you in the long run.Sivaram Velauthapillainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798074091942701235.post-59243870154408237582009-10-13T18:46:11.000-04:002009-10-13T18:46:11.000-04:00Thanks for sharing! As for me, I'm applying fo...Thanks for sharing! As for me, I'm applying for an MBA and from there will decide which route to take. I have decided whatever I do, wether its being a consultant or an analyst, I'd like to have as much exposure to the BRIC(maybe not russia) markets as possible, since I think that they will be more prosperous in the next 20 years. I've only taken a few econ classes and feel that an MBA would help in getting potential oppurtunities whether in the financial sector or working at a company. I have a few friends that are in management consulting that work on business intellegence, pricing, analysis etc. working to provide reccomendations to the management of companies and they seem to enjoy the work. I just recently found out how a lot of corporations kind of make business decisions using IT services and then excel modeling (basically using DCF with hundreds of inputs on anything you can imagine through customized SAP software) to create pricing modles, monitor inventories..etc.<br /><br />I like the notion of trading/investing because(it is enjoyable/fun to me to do reserach on potential investments and it is a skill that can be transfered as well). While the idea of client relations is not too bothersome to me, corporate bureaucracy is. Good luck with the search.sunnynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798074091942701235.post-24721304026472534402009-10-12T19:13:36.000-04:002009-10-12T19:13:36.000-04:00My ideal goal is to break, not into finace or equi...My ideal goal is to break, not into finace or equity research or the like, but into so-called market intelligence, business intelligence, market research, and the like (I'm using these vague terms purposely because it is really a broad area). In these areas, you are not necessarily looking at it from an investor's point of view but from a firm's strategic point of view. These areas also mean that you are not limited to the financial services sector and can literally work in any industry. This is more easier for me since my current experience is more in-line; but it is also something that interests me more.<br /><br />My favourite courses when taking business in university (it was a minor) were not in finance, although I liked that a lot as well, but, rather, corporate strategy. This is a broad area and entails activities such as analyzing competitors, figuring out what new products to introduce, and so on. Unfortunately such jobs are senior (sometimes requiring MBA but often requiring 15+ years of experience) and one really won't get to work on such tasks. However, I think if I can break into something like "market research," I can gain a lot of knowledge and possibly work on more strategic projects.<br /><br />So-called "market research" sort of overlaps with "equity research" and both can be good for people like me. Some people don't like market research jobs because they are more marketing-oriented and often not as prestigious as those of financial analysts. But, nevertheless, it may be a good stepping stone for me.<br /><br />We'll see what happens... The ironic thing is that policymakers, executives, think tanks, etc, keep saying they want business-oriented individuals with quantitative skills but it's virtually impossible to get an interview, even for a junior/intermediate position.Sivaram Velauthapillainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798074091942701235.post-88014765079767311742009-10-12T18:58:42.000-04:002009-10-12T18:58:42.000-04:00My background is also in engineering (computer), a...My background is also in engineering (computer), although my current job is data analysis (more statistics.) Some equity research role would be interesting but here is my current thinking on that:<br /><br />I have thought about finance--not just now but when I graduated from university (I did some 5 yr engineering & management program so I essentially took all the core business courses)--but I have some concerns. I don't want to kill your motivation but I don't know if I'm a good fit. The problem with most investment jobs is that, quit frankly, they are sales jobs. If you have good interpersonal skills and favour client relations, then that is good for you. In fact, you could make more money than almost any other profession. Otherwise, I'm not so sure.<br /><br />Even for an equity analyst, they have to handle a lot of client relations. I don't mean just dealing with questions about your research (this is ok and analysts should be prepared to answer), but actually selling your research to others. This is definitely the case with smaller firms, who can't subsidize equity research off investment banking or banking services like large firms can. If you listen to mutual fund managers, some of they say they spend as much as 40% of their time dealing with clients, going on the road, and so on. I'm not saying everyone is like this but that's kind of how it is. Even Warren Buffett spent some time trying to get people to give him money to manage (after he went back to Omaha to strike out on his own.) I don't mind dealing with potential clients but I am not good at selling of any sort :( <br /><br />On top of all this, as you point out, the financial sector may be entering long-term stagnation. Right now one also has to compete against all the laid off financial professionals over the last couple of years, so it'll be tough to break in. This actually isn't the case in Canada, which didn't face a financial crisis, but it definitely is the case in America--a week doesn't go by when I don't read some laid off finance professional struggling to get a job.Sivaram Velauthapillainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798074091942701235.post-80660053635343178942009-10-12T17:05:05.000-04:002009-10-12T17:05:05.000-04:00Interesting notes on the job search rant. I'm ...Interesting notes on the job search rant. I'm wondering if you enjoy researching companies as potential investments, if your data skills can land you a job in equity analysis. This is the route I may take since I'm in an engineering profession. Unfortunately, my macro view is that the finance sector(dealing with capital markets) will be in years of consolidating.sunnynoreply@blogger.com